The Use of New Tools in Photoshop and Lightroom.

[Douglas Sherman]

More than ever, people who have little, or no knowledge ask if you have used photo processing software to get the image they are evaluating. If you answer yes, they feel they are being cheated. What they don't know is that you have to process the RAW image to get it back to the way you saw it. However, new tools allow you to make it into quite another mage. Now, you can alter it into something quite different than what you actually saw. So, what do you think are the limitations about what can be accepted for, the REMOVE tool, SKY replacement tool, and GENERATIVE EXPAND tool.

Do you use them and what are the limitations that you think should be placed on their use? Don't hesitate to show some examples of how you have used them

Here are some examples of mine.

GENERATIVE EXPAND TOOL.

The major problem with this tool is that you can ask it to place a unicorn in the image and it will do it flawlessly. However, it is great at expanding the size of the image as you can see in the image below.

Original image.
This is an image of Bloodroot that Sierra Club used in a calendar and on an address book. It was also a finalist in the Roger
Tory Peterson Nature Photograph of the year.

Here it is after generative expand.

SKY REPLACEMENT

This tool can replace a bald sky with ease or introduce a rainbow or a spectacular sunset/sunrise.

Original

Sky replacement

REMOVAL TOOL

This tool is remarkable in its ability to remove things and maintain the continuity of the image. I even use it to clean up the edges of objects I have selected: If parts of the selected object are missing, I select the majority of the object and it replaces it perfectly. If there is some irregularity outside the object, I place the tool removal area mostly outside the object and it removes the remaining problem.

Original with dust bunnies and road

After removal of dust bunnies and road

 

[AlanLichty]

Your examples are good ones and seem like a natural enhancement to the scenes you depict. The canvas expansion example is exceptional for being faithful to the original. None of these leave me feeling cheated.

The sky replacement example you posted worked quite well but there are many I have seen that are laughably mismatched light directions between the ground and the sky. If your shot from Zion had sunrise colors lighting up the clouds from behind the white cliff faces with the foreground light coming from the left in your shot would be an example of that. Adding in subjects that don't exist is another and often the light on the new subject doesn't match any of the ambient light in the scene.

Sadly these tools leave us with the new reality that if you feel like something doesn't really seem normal about the light in the scene it probably isn't these days.

 

[Kyle Jones]

I play with the expansion sometimes and have also manually done sky replacements (I have an example in the critique forum) but don't use these for my "real" work.

I'll use any remove tool available to remove intrusions into the frame (usually branches or grass) but sometimes power lines and people. I'd guess I remove something in about half my images. AI or not, I'll try several tools to see what does it cleanest.

 

[JimFox]

I am missing out!

I haven't seen the Generative Expand tool. I need to find that, it could be handy sometimes. What I have been using a lot this last week is the Generative Fill. With the wedding I just shot, the Generative Fill has been awesome in removing stray heads, feet, removing doors and cabinets. It's amazing what it can remove and leave a natural result.

I am having lunch at Disneyland, I will post an example or two that blew my mind away.

 

[Trent Watts]

Thanks for this thread Douglas. I appreciate your examples. I have a lot to learn about some of the techniques you are referring to.

 

[Jameel Hyder]

A discussion that pops up quite a bit in the forums. To me these are all tools and can be used where appropriate. If the image is to be viewed as art rather than a document, then it is upto the artist to use the tools available to him. As Alan pointed out, it can used incorrectly where the image isn't believable to a trained eye (sometimes even otherwise).

 

[BlackRockArt]

More than ever, people who have little, or no knowledge ask if you have used photo processing software to get the image they are evaluating. If you answer yes, they feel they are being cheated. What they don't know is that you have to process the RAW image to get it back to the way you saw it. However, new tools allow you to make it into quite another mage. Now, you can alter it into something quite different than what you actually saw. So, what do you think are the limitations about what can be accepted for, the REMOVE tool, SKY replacement tool, and GENERATIVE EXPAND tool.

Do you use them and what are the limitations that you think should be placed on their use? Don't hesitate to show some examples of how you have used them

Here are some examples of mine.

GENERATIVE EXPAND TOOL.

The major problem with this tool is that you can ask it to place a unicorn in the image and it will do it flawlessly. However, it is great at expanding the size of the image as you can see in the image below.

Original image.
This is an image of Bloodroot that Sierra Club used in a calendar and on an address book. It was also a finalist in the Roger
Tory Peterson Nature Photograph of the year.

View attachment 73781

Here it is after generative expand.
View attachment 73782

SKY REPLACEMENT

This tool can replace a bald sky with ease or introduce a rainbow or a spectacular sunset/sunrise.

Original
View attachment 73806

Sky replacement
View attachment 73784


REMOVAL TOOL

This tool is remarkable in its ability to remove things and maintain the continuity of the image. I even use it to clean up the edges of objects I have selected: If parts of the selected object are missing, I select the majority of the object and it replaces it perfectly. If there is some irregularity outside the object, I place the tool removal area mostly outside the object and it removes the remaining problem.

Original with dust bunnies and road
View attachment 73800


After removal of dust bunnies and road
View attachment 73803

Doug, for tuck & nip jobs, the Generative Expansion tool does a very nice job; for more complex selective areas, I often find G.E.T. hacks the photo, so it's a great tool when used carefully.

Oliver

 

[Douglas Sherman]

Doug, for tuck & nip jobs, the Generative Expansion tool does a very nice job; for more complex selective areas, I often find G.E.T. hacks the photo, so it's a great tool when used carefully.

Oliver

Thanks, Oliver. I'll check it out.

 

[JimFox]

@Douglas Sherman I still don't see a Generative Expansion Tool. All I see and have used is Generative Fill. What menu is the Generative Expansion Tool under?

 

[Ken Rennie]

Thanks for making me think Doug. I have always expanded the canvas, removed distractions and at times replaced skies. I also distort and shift elements in the images about. The AI tools make it simpler although the sky replacement is usually not as good as my careful hand crafted version. Should there be limits? Impossible to police but even if it were I still think that no limits should be imposed. However I have internal "limits" with a don't produce a "have my changes produced an image that never could have occurred" rule. I have broken this rule when I removed the varicose veins from the mother of the groom in a wedding image, this was pre AI. The UK has a very prestigious landscape photo comp where no cloning, in or removal, beyond dust spot removal is allowed and this requires RAW file submission. Until recently nature images in all UK club competitions had a similar no cloning of any kind rule, but this was based on trust. Ken

 

[Douglas Sherman]

@Douglas Sherman I still don't see a Generative Expansion Tool. All I see and have used is Generative Fill. What menu is the Generative Expansion Tool under?

Expanding your images has never been easier and we’ll show you the exact steps you need to follow to achieve the best results:

• 1. Launch Photoshop and open the image you want to work with.
• 2. Select the Crop Tool by pressing ‘C’ on your keyboard.
• 3. Look for the option “Generative Expand” either in the toolbar or at the top where it says “Fill.”
• 4. Ensure that the Fill option is set to “Generative Expand.”

https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervi...554B27036F8D488C9209554B27036F8D488&FORM=VIRE

 

[MonikaC]

I've only used the Remove tool (generally when the other options don't give a satisfactory result). Michael Frye says that the resolution with that tool is lower than with the others, so I try to limit my use of it. It often does a much better job, but knowing that it's at the expense of resolution, I try to just use it for small areas.

 

[John Holbrook]

Expanding your images has never been easier and we’ll show you the exact steps you need to follow to achieve the best results:

• 1. Launch Photoshop and open the image you want to work with.
• 2. Select the Crop Tool by pressing ‘C’ on your keyboard.
• 3. Look for the option “Generative Expand” either in the toolbar or at the top where it says “Fill.”
• 4. Ensure that the Fill option is set to “Generative Expand.”

https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervi...554B27036F8D488C9209554B27036F8D488&FORM=VIRE

Probably everyone knows this already: after the Generative Expand finishes be sure to look at your Properties panel (scroll down in this panel) and you will see 3 versions of the Generative Expand just completed. You may see a version among the three shown you prefer instead of the first one that’s displayed.

 

[Douglas Sherman]

I've only used the Remove tool (generally when the other options don't give a satisfactory result). Michael Frye says that the resolution with that tool is lower than with the others, so I try to limit my use of it. It often does a much better job, but knowing that it's at the expense of resolution, I try to just use it for small areas.

Thanks, Monika.