Trying To Test Things Out With My IR Setup

[Mike Lewis]

So after seeing so many cool IR images here, it got me back thinking about my attempts at IR previously, and I decided it was time to give another go on this type of shooting. The last time around, I was not too happy with the sharpness I was getting, but I had been shooting handheld, and focusing through the viewfinder. This time I used a tripod and focused using Liveview.

Before posting results, here are a few comments about the gear I am trying to use for this:

• Canon T2i, modified for deep sky astro by replacing the low pass filter with a clear glass filter of the same thickness. This then is a full spectrum mod for the camera, performed for me by Hap Griffin, who has been doing these mods for years: http://www.imaginginfinity.com/dslrmods.html
• Inexpensive IR filter, Polaroid 720nm
• Canon 16-35 f/4 L IS

So I went out, and shot a couple of images. This view was probably my favorite composition-wise, although the point here is not to worry about how good the image is aesthetically yet, but to try to determine how good it is just technically, specifically as it pertains to sharpness. I also did end up with a higher aperture setting than perhaps I should have, as this was imaged at f/13. ISO was 100.

Lastly, I REALLY do not know anything about post processing yet either, so these are likely pretty wonky in that area too. The color shot simply had the color balance dropped as far as possible in LR, then was edited using Channel Mixer in PS to get rid of the as much of the remaining red cast as possible and get a blue sky. The B&W version was then also passed through Silver Efex 2 (which I am also a newbie using.) Sharpening and some mild other edits were applied in LR on the images coming back from PS.

This is also my first try at linking to larger version images posted in a gallery to post in a forum...

Color version:

LRCC_LoboTrail_IRTest_PSCC_sRGB_FW_IMG_0279_IR_PSCC

• Mike Lewis
• Oct 31, 2018

A test shot behind my house using T2i with clear glass mod, Polaroid 720nm filter, tripod, and...

B&W version

LRCC_LoboTrail_IRTest_PSCC_SEfex2_sRGB_FW_IMG_0279_IR_PSCC-Edit-2

• Mike Lewis
• Oct 31, 2018

The same shot as above, further mangled in Silver Efex 2 :)

I am VERY interested to know about how these look as far as sharpness goes. I want to know if this camera and/or this filter is up to the task of taking decent IR images, before I go off and try to get more serious with this. Of course, any other feedback regarding technique, and certainly some good info on where to go to better learn post processing for this stuff, would also be much appreciated

ML

 

[Bob Denton]

These are great. That's a nice way to do monotone.

 

[AlanLichty]

Sharpness seems quite workable for the full resolution version - esp. in the B&W. The color casts in the the first one make it a little more difficult to discern the edges as well as in the second version. The deep color cast in the first one is a bit surreal.

 

[Mike Lewis]

Alan,

Agreed, that is what eventually prompted me to just make a B&W version. The color processing seems pretty daunting for these. I think the first issue is that the white balance is wrong, even after setting it as low as possible in Lightroom (which only goes down to 2000K, and still leaves some weird color casts.) Then my inexperience takes over from there. At one point, I had successfully gotten a custom white balance set in the camera, but of course, shooting raw that is not able to be easily used in Lightroom. Perhaps if I tried Canon's DPP software it might be able to read that and import it properly.

In any case, I agree the color version is pretty weird

ML

 

[Ben Egbert]

The sharpness looks fine to me too. Another vote for the second one which has a classic IR feel.

 

[Mike Lewis]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I am feeling better about the sharpness. I think perhaps my last time out I was having issues wiuth handheld shooting and/or standard phase detect focus...

Here is the last one to post form the test run. I think I may like this one the best. At thjis point, I am only trying these as B&W shots until I leqarn a bit more about the nuances of color processing, or perhaps until I get a different filter that lets in more visible light ofr more colrs saturation out of the camera.

This is a street scene near my house, in the late day sunlight:

LRCC_StreetScene_PSCC_sRGB_FW_IMG_0283_IR_PSCC

• Mike Lewis
• Oct 31, 2018

Another from this afternoon's test run. A street scene in my neighborhood. All shooting...

ML

 

[AlanLichty]

I like the feel of the last one. Classic IR mood.

 

[Panther]

Hi Mike,

Good to see your IR Images and looks like you're getting the hang of it fast !!!

I think the sharpness isn't bad at all, might just be the Filter, I'm sure you'll get a better idea
after shooting and processing a few more.

Very Nice Work, Look forward to seeing more of your images !!!

Take Care,

Craig

 

[JimFox]

Hey Mike,

Now I will be the one to tell you that I like the color version. It is an IR photo after all, so to have the different color cast is normal.

I see you used an IR filter, the only issue I have with those is they block so much light you end up with such long exposures that with landscape work you are going to get softness typically because the any movement at all in the leaves, branches, grasses will end up being seen as softness from the blurring. It's certainly cheaper to buy an IR filter then it is to get the camera modded to IR at the sensor itself, but the big plus of getting the camera modded is that you can shoot at normal exposures.

 

[JimFox]

By the way, I do like the last one, I do find it cool too when the leaves turn white on a B&W IR shot.

 

[Mike Lewis]

Hey Mike,

Now I will be the one to tell you that I like the color version. It is an IR photo after all, so to have the different color cast is normal.

I see you used an IR filter, the only issue I have with those is they block so much light you end up with such long exposures that with landscape work you are going to get softness typically because the any movement at all in the leaves, branches, grasses will end up being seen as softness from the blurring. It's certainly cheaper to buy an IR filter then it is to get the camera modded to IR at the sensor itself, but the big plus of getting the camera modded is that you can shoot at normal exposures.

Jim,

Thanks! Actually, my exposures with a filter are not long at all, because this is an already modified camera. It was not modified for a specific IR response, but had the filter removed completely, so it has the full sensor response from IR thru visible to even some level of UV (have not tested that part out yet...) The original use case was to shoot astro, but I had it in the back of my mind I might some day decide to dabble with this stuff, which is why I went for the full spectrum mod. What this means now is that I can put many types of filters on the camera for different types of responses, and other than the effects of the Bayer color filter array itself, get lots of different results. And it is as efficient as a dedicated IR conversion would be. So even though I am using a narrow IR filter, I am still getting shutter speeds of less than a second in virtually all cases. For instance, this was shot at 1/25th at f/8. But you are correct, on an unmodified DSLR, you would not be getting shutter speeds anywhere near that short.

ML

 

[Mike Lewis]

Hi Mike,

Good to see your IR Images and looks like you're getting the hang of it fast !!!

I think the sharpness isn't bad at all, might just be the Filter, I'm sure you'll get a better idea
after shooting and processing a few more.

Very Nice Work, Look forward to seeing more of your images !!!

Take Care,

Craig

Craig,

Thanks so much for your support. of course it is largely your inspirational work that has me fooling about with this stuff. I can foresee a future situation where I will likely want to get some expert advice form you on post processing.

For now, a few filter questions:

I think I am ready to try a new filter. I could of course get a higher quality 720nm, but I find myself really liking the 590nm stuff you post, as well as a lot of the 665nm stuff I have seen as well. And then the really deep 850 B&W stuff is pretty dramatic.

1. Are the 590nm and 665nm images much more complicated to post process?
2. Do you find the sharpness form those filters to be less (due to the wider range of wavelengths passed, presumably) than a more 'conventional' 720nm Filter?
3. Would you recommend the Kolari Vision brand filters, or is there someone else you think is the best choice?

Thanks bunches!

ML

 

[Mike Lewis]

Thanks for all the replies to my 'newbie' IR imaging attempts - I do feel now like my gear is up to the task going forward.

ML

 

[Panther]

Jim,

Thanks! Actually, my exposures with a filter are not long at all, because this is an already modified camera. It was not modified for a specific IR response, but had the filter removed completely, so it has the full sensor response from IR thru visible to even some level of UV (have not tested that part out yet...) The original use case was to shoot astro, but I had it in the back of my mind I might some day decide to dabble with this stuff, which is why I went for the full spectrum mod. What this means now is that I can put many types of filters on the camera for different types of responses, and other than the effects of the Bayer color filter array itself, get lots of different results. And it is as efficient as a dedicated IR conversion would be. So even though I am using a narrow IR filter, I am still getting shutter speeds of less than a second in virtually all cases. For instance, this was shot at 1/25th at f/8. But you are correct, on an unmodified DSLR, you would not be getting shutter speeds anywhere near that short.

ML

Hi Mikey,

Craig,

Thanks so much for your support. of course it is largely your inspirational work that has me fooling about with this stuff. I can foresee a future situation where I will likely want to get some expert advice form you on post processing.

For now, a few filter questions:

I think I am ready to try a new filter. I could of course get a higher quality 720nm, but I find myself really liking the 590nm stuff you post, as well as a lot of the 665nm stuff I have seen as well. And then the really deep 850 B&W stuff is pretty dramatic.

1. Are the 590nm and 665nm images much more complicated to post process?
2. Do you find the sharpness form those filters to be less (due to the wider range of wavelengths passed, presumably) than a more 'conventional' 720nm Filter?
3. Would you recommend the Kolari Vision brand filters, or is there someone else you think is the best choice?

Thanks bunches!

ML

Him Mikey,

You're more than Welcome, glad I could help a little along the way.

1) I do like the 720nm, but have to say I love the look and results from the 590nm. I find the 590nm easier to Post Process if a
Good CWB is set to work from. Also, from that you can work it to have the look and appearance of the 720nm, and also 850nm.

2) I've heard supposedly that there's a slight loss of Sharpness but for my work I've not really noticed it and usually just bump
the sharpness up a little more in Processing. I've heard/ read that the 720nm wavelength does lend it's self to sharper images
due to the light it lets through.

3) To me Kolari Vision's Filters are some of the Top Ones for IR, B+W are also very, very good, and I'm sure the other top quality
filter Companies are good as well. Also, I think for the Money depending on the Filters size I think KV pricing is right there or
even a little less.

So cool to see your images and can't wait to see more.

Take Care,

Craig

 

[Kyle Jones]

Just for grins, I played with your color file. I created a hue/saturation layer and selected "colorize" to eliminate the purple hue. Looks like you have plenty of options to play with color. I used a mask to keep your original sky color because I liked it better.

 

[JimFox]

Just for grins, I played with your color file. I created a hue/saturation layer and selected "colorize" to eliminate the purple hue. Looks like you have plenty of options to play with color. I used a mask to keep your original sky color because I liked it better.
View attachment 13546

Nice work Kyle!

 

[JimFox]

Jim,

Thanks! Actually, my exposures with a filter are not long at all, because this is an already modified camera. It was not modified for a specific IR response, but had the filter removed completely, so it has the full sensor response from IR thru visible to even some level of UV (have not tested that part out yet...) The original use case was to shoot astro, but I had it in the back of my mind I might some day decide to dabble with this stuff, which is why I went for the full spectrum mod. What this means now is that I can put many types of filters on the camera for different types of responses, and other than the effects of the Bayer color filter array itself, get lots of different results. And it is as efficient as a dedicated IR conversion would be. So even though I am using a narrow IR filter, I am still getting shutter speeds of less than a second in virtually all cases. For instance, this was shot at 1/25th at f/8. But you are correct, on an unmodified DSLR, you would not be getting shutter speeds anywhere near that short.

ML

Oh okay, that makes sense. I did in the back of my mind wonder what the difference would be with having had the one filter removed. So I wonder if the same would hold true for the newer higher resolution cameras like the D810 or D850 that don't even have the filter? Shutter speeds that are less then a second in length are certainly doable.

 

[Mike Lewis]

Oh okay, that makes sense. I did in the back of my mind wonder what the difference would be with having had the one filter removed. So I wonder if the same would hold true for the newer higher resolution cameras like the D810 or D850 that don't even have the filter? Shutter speeds that are less then a second in length are certainly doable.

Well we need to make sure we are talking about the same thing. I am talking about the UV/IR blocking filter that is installed on every standard DSLR. Some special models (Canon 20Da and 60Da, and Nikon 810A) have this filter modified to pass some Hydrogen Alpha energy and so it will also pass some IR more effectively than stocks models, but all other cameras as they come from the factory have this filter installed, and so are very inefficient towards collection of IR energy. My T2i was originally built this way too. But I had it modified, where this UV/IR blocking filter was removed and replaced by a clear glass filter. Now the full response of the sensor is available. Of course, shooting the camera without any external filter in place is not advised, as it collects all the wavelengths at once, and they typically do not all focus in the same place using refractive optics (i.e. lenses) so you get a blurry looking result. But specific external filters can be used to linit the range of wavelengths to a specific range and allow the camera to be able to focus all the energy at one point. You can even buy an external filter that has the same passband characteristics as the UV/IR that was removed, and then take normal looking images with the camera.

The 810 and 850 have the anti-aliasing filters removed, that are used to provide blurring to counteract moire. That is a different filter than the one I am talking about. So while a Nikon 810A would at least have a shorter exposure time for IR than a stack camera, any stock camera is likely to have to put up with long exposure times when shooting IR with an external filter.

ML

 

[Mike Lewis]

Just for grins, I played with your color file. I created a hue/saturation layer and selected "colorize" to eliminate the purple hue. Looks like you have plenty of options to play with color. I used a mask to keep your original sky color because I liked it better.
View attachment 13546

Kyle,

Thanks, that is definitely a better result to my eye! Lots to learn and tweak with these. I am already thinking about adding another IR filter to get into this a little deeper. I am pretty stoked that a camera that I thought I would never use again after I retired it from deep sky astroimaging is now going to have a productive second life as a very serviceable IR camera!

Appreciate you taking the interest and time to play with this file!

ML