Some interesting findings on Timelapse

Ben Egbert

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Staff member
I have been working on two issues today. How does the 5DSR work for TL and what to do about exposure during a light to dark sequence (sunrise of sunset)

1. How does the 5DSR work for timelapse. Answer, pretty good, but it lacks a few things the R5 has. The R5 has a way to set the exposure for the first frame and keep it constant, or adjust each shot based on exposure point. The 5DSR does not have this ability to expose each frame so it would need to be adjusted during the sequence. The 5DSR is also limited to 1920 x 1080. The R5 can go all the way to 8K.

2. I did some TL's in AV priority and the images go from normal exposure to very dark as the light fades. This does not happen on the R5 with the exposure set for each image. I also tried with auto iso and got the same results. I conclude that this feature (expose each shot on its own) is what's responsible for the even exposure from very dark to very light scenes, but it probably does not work unless auto iso is set because otherwise exposure might be out of range.


This raises a question for all of us doing TL. How do we control exposure during a TL? If we let the camera keep it constant, it does not look natural. If we turn off this feature and adjust it manually during the video, how do we avoid sudden changes including movement?

One strategy occurred to me. Shoot the TL in a series of takes with a deliberate interruption as the scene gets lighter or darker. You could start with a bit of exposure bump at the start of a sunrise, then as it starts to get brighter, stop and readjust for the next section etc. These could be joined later with a transition between sections.


One other advantage of the R5 is that it displays the image after each shot which allows you to see when the exposure is going bad. The 5DSR does not do this.
 

JimFox

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Good questions and thoughts Ben. I am heading home from a sunset session at Laguna Beach, and can comment once I get home.
 

AlanLichty

Moderator
I was curious as to how the day to night stuff was done and did a quick online search. There is a name for this - exposure ramping and it sounds like a bit of an art form. This one was pretty good. Do a search on exposure ramping and you will find a ton more.
 

Jameel Hyder

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Another name for this is bulb ramping and things like promote control uses that terminology. This is done by putting the camera on bulb mode and the device controls the shutter speed and adjusts it over time.
 

Ben Egbert

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Ok, Alan, I read this and am most grateful for your suggesting it. The simple fact is, it indicates that I am entering a rabbit hole with no bottom!!!

After a fairly serious attempt to learn how to do this, I had already concluded that I did not want to shoot raws in time intervals because of the amount of storage and time involved in post processing. My primary interest remains stills and I want to dedicate my R5 to that end and use a spar camera for TL. But the R5 is far more capable.

Now this article suggests using RAW time interval images and possibly adding some hardware. But it also sets a standard (holy grail) that I can see wil be very difficult.

I did an experiment this morning shooting in camera TL with a stop every 300 or less images to adjust the exposure. My subject ended up being pure fog so it did not tell me much but I did learn about the time and issues involved with the resets.

My current thoughts are to limit TL to interesting moving subjects with limited brightness changes. Either daytime motion studies or sunset transitions around the the few minutes before or after sunset/sunrise. I never had any intention of doing Milky way TL.

My prime purpose remains still landscape images.
 

AlanLichty

Moderator
Ben - agree with your comments. This looks like a true art form in and of itself if you are trying to work manually. The hardware looked like it could do wonderful things for the hard core TL enthusiasts who want to show a daylight to Milky Way transition to sunrise sequence but they weren't exactly giving away the controllers. I like looking at TL sequences like this but will stick to looking at other people's results.
 

JimFox

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Staff member
I looked at the link Alan had sent, and while interesting, it sure seems way too complicated for me too. I just want to have some fun with timelapse, not become a professional timelapser (if that is a person :) ).

I finally noticed in my video's last night while my video's transitioned nicely I think as the exposure changed, I did finally see some of that flickering then in mine that you had mentioned Ben. So now that bugs me... :( I do have an option for Exposure Smoothing in my newer Nikon's that's supposed to eliminate that. I didn't have it on though, so I will try that next time.

The biggest thing I am focusing on now though, is how to have a compelling scene with the timelapse. Parts of my time at Laguna Beach last night as I look back the video's seem a bit boring. Now a few have some very nice cloud movement, that's cool, but the tide was pretty flat last night, so that didn't add the interest I had hoped for. I did have a pretty killer sunset to work with, so I may just go for that in my final work.

Ben, I am pretty sold on the in camera timelapse too. As my point of doing timelapse was to have fun with it and to be able to share some fun scenes. I don't want to get bogged down into hours and hours of processing thousands of raws. So I think you and I (not sure who else) will just get to the point where we know the conditions that can lead to easy timelapse and those that don't. You have such cool cloud movement that you can work with, it doesn't have to be at times of exposure transition like at sunset and or sunrise. Just day time timelapses of cloud movement can really blow me away from the ones I have seen. Maybe when I get to Colorado that's an option for me.

So I will play with one camera on manual exposure tonight or tomorrow night at the beach and one with the Exposure Smoothing.

One trick I just thought of Ben... Is that if we shoot manual exposure, and we see the exposure is getting too dark or bright for our current setting. Then when you change the exposure, also change your camera's composition, or zoom in or zoom out more. Then you can use a Transition in Movavi to go between the 2 scenes, and viewers will be focusing on the zoomed in or out view and not notice that the exposure got changed slightly.... kind of like a Magician, where they distract you with one hand while doing the magic in the other?
 

Jameel Hyder

Moderator
Staff member
There is one more thing that compelling time lapses have in addition to exposure ramping and that is camera movement on dollys or slow zooms. A fixed view gets boring after a while.

So the observation about the rabbit hole by Ben is spot on. And that goes with videos as well where the equipment and gadgets not to speak of post processing tools take you into a potentially bigger and deeper rabbit hole.
 

Ben Egbert

Forum Helper
Staff member
Some great ideas Jim. I had nothing but fog this morning and clear sky's today, but maybe tonight I will try a sunset TL. I am concentrating on getting my 5dsr to do this, My EOS M has movies but not in camera TL unless I just do a movie and slow it down.
 

JimFox

Moderator
Staff member
There is one more thing that compelling time lapses have in addition to exposure ramping and that is camera movement on dollys or slow zooms. A fixed view gets boring after a while.

So the observation about the rabbit hole by Ben is spot on. And that goes with videos as well where the equipment and gadgets not to speak of post processing tools take you into a potentially bigger and deeper rabbit hole.
I agree Jameel that this can turn into a Rabbit Hole for sure. My comment though is we don't have to let it become a rabbit hole. I am not stopping doing Landscape still images, this is just something I want to do where there happens to be a compelling scene that would work well in timelapse.

For example, if we are Skyline Overlook and there is not a cloud in the sky, I wouldn't do any timelapse. But if there are some fast moving clouds, I will do it. I think Ben and I can do timelapses and not go down into a Rabbit hole, there is no reason we can't. Right now I think we are just in a learning stage on how to create some simple effective timelapses that don't require any Rabbit Hole diving... :)

As for the zooming and panning. I agree totally. I have been stating that I have been working on panning and zooming in my video's.. I have found some of my lenses are bad for zooming as they are too stiff, so they can't be zoomed in smoothly. I did find today that there is a seperate zoom in or out feature in Movavi, so perhaps that can be used instead. I ordered a $50 adapter to go on a tripod that simply rotates to let you pan a scene. I am not going to get all complicated with a trolly and all that. I think a simple rotating of the camera from one scene to another is effective.
 

AlanLichty

Moderator
I find the time-lapse stuff interesting but I am more interested in video to go along with stills. I have shot a few short video sequences of serious storm wave activity at various coastal locations mostly because it's so hard to convey those scenes with still shots but have never really tried to process them into anything presentable. I did download the free version of Movavi but haven't installed it yet.
 
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