Panasonic S1R

[Peter Michal]

I haven't tried it with the Leica. I have tried it with the Sigma 14mm L-mount and the Panasonic 24-70 without the adapter. The result was the same.
________________________
Oh, that's a shame, the S1R is probably not specifically for night-astro photography. Probably in a future S1R II these fixes will be made.
Kyle, which program is best for high res S1R processing? I got used to Photoshop..

 

[Kyle Jones]

Oh, that's a shame, the S1R is probably not specifically for night-astro photography. Probably in a future S1R II these fixes will be made.
Kyle, which program is best for high res S1R processing? An Photoshop habe ich mich bisher gewöhnt.

I am hoping that the S1R II fixes the issue. It is possible to use it for night photos. It's best if there is some moonlight so the ground isn't completely dark and if you compose wide so you can crop out the worst of it. These were both taken with the S1R and the Sigma 14/1.8.

I use Lightroom and Photoshop for the high resolution files. They are slower to load than normal ones, but manageable.

 

[Peter Michal]

I am hoping that the S1R II fixes the issue. It is possible to use it for night photos. It's best if there is some moonlight so the ground isn't completely dark and if you compose wide so you can crop out the worst of it. These were both taken with the S1R and the Sigma 14/1.8.

I use Lightroom and Photoshop for the high resolution files. They are slower to load than normal ones, but manageable.
---
Gorgeous photos, Kyle!

 

[Kyle Jones]

I'm headed to Montana in a couple of weeks. If I get clear skies at all (always a challenge there) I'll try to take some side-by-side Milky Way shots with the S1R and the Canon R5, both with the Sigma 14/1.8.

 

[Peter Michal]

I'm headed to Montana in a couple of weeks. If I get clear skies at all (always a challenge there) I'll try to take some side-by-side Milky Way shots with the S1R and the Canon R5, both with the Sigma 14/1.8.

That would be interesting, Kyle! I'd love to see the photos.. Panasonic seems even better today than before. I'm surprised how Panasonic handled the pixel shift, for example if a figure comes into my field of vision, it's sharp and most importantly there's only one! The detail in the photos is very good (ISO50 is the best) and after the final noise removal it remains pretty sharp.

 

[Kyle Jones]

Here are two "identical" phots taken with the Canon R5 and the Panasonic S1R. Both cameras used their native version of the Sigma 14/1.8 lens (EF mount on the Canon and L-mount on the Panasonic). Both images are 25 seconds at ISO 1600 and f/1.8 and processed (just a quick Lightroom edit) with exactly the same settings.

1) Canon R5 Version

2) Panasonic S1R version

This clearly shows the purple bloom at the bottom of the S1R image - which is also darker. This really shows why I don't trust it for night shots. I'm really hoping they launch a V2 with this problem fixed.

 

[JimFox]

Here are two "identical" phots taken with the Canon R5 and the Panasonic S1R. Both cameras used their native version of the Sigma 14/1.8 lens (EF mount on the Canon and L-mount on the Panasonic). Both images are 25 seconds at ISO 1600 and f/1.8 and processed (just a quick Lightroom edit) with exactly the same settings.

1) Canon R5 Version
View attachment 72058

2) Panasonic S1R version
View attachment 72059

This clearly shows the purple bloom at the bottom of the S1R image - which is also darker. This really shows why I don't trust it for night shots. I'm really hoping they launch a V2 with this problem fixed.

Interesting comparison Kyle.

Are you sure it's not maybe a lens issue or a light light of sorts?

My old D810 that got smashed by the wind in Valley of Fire a few years ago, I never noticed the magenta shadows at the bottom. But when I replaced it with a used Nikon D810, I pretty quickly noticed the magenta shadows similar to this. I didn't notice them soon enough to return it. And it doesn't seem to do it all of the time. That's why I figure it's got to be some kind of small light leak. But maybe it's not. Anyway, it's one of the cameras I traded in a few weeks ago to pay for the Nikon Z6II.

 

[Kyle Jones]

Interesting comparison Kyle.

Are you sure it's not maybe a lens issue or a light light of sorts?

My old D810 that got smashed by the wind in Valley of Fire a few years ago, I never noticed the magenta shadows at the bottom. But when I replaced it with a used Nikon D810, I pretty quickly noticed the magenta shadows similar to this. I didn't notice them soon enough to return it. And it doesn't seem to do it all of the time. That's why I figure it's got to be some kind of small light leak. But maybe it's not. Anyway, it's one of the cameras I traded in a few weeks ago to pay for the Nikon Z6II.

I've had it happen with multiple lenses, both native and adapted. You can even make it happen in a dark room with no light to leak. I'm convinced it is an electronic bloom at this point.

 

[JimFox]

I've had it happen with multiple lenses, both native and adapted. You can even make it happen in a dark room with no light to leak. I'm convinced it is an electronic bloom at this point.

I wonder if that was the issue with my D810. I guess it doesn't matter so much since I traded it in, but it did always bug me because it wasn't consistent, so I couldn't nail it down. And as you mention with the S1R, you can't trust it. And at night, one thing I have found is I really need to be able to trust and depend on my gear.

 

[Peter Michal]

That's an interesting shortcoming of this camera.. I'll try it on my S1R sometime.

 

[Kyle Jones]

That's an interesting shortcoming of this camera.. I'll try it on my S1R sometime.

I'd love to see how your body does

 

[Peter Michal]

If you mean night photography, I haven't tried that yet. I have some photos from the S1R, but I'm waiting until I can get into a more interesting environment.. probably next week. So far I've tried several options to handle the pixel shift and it seems to be OK.

 

[xpatUSA]

I'm thinking that the lens is vignetting.

The S1R shot:

and the cast is coming from where the exposure is low enough to get poor color accuracy.

I think LensTip measures lens vignetting ...

 

[xpatUSA]

I'm thinking that the lens is vignetting.

I think LensTip measures lens vignetting ...

See here: https://www.lenstip.com/506.8-Lens_review-Sigma_A_14_mm_f_1.8_DG_HSM_Vignetting.html

says for full-frame "At the maximum relative aperture the brightness loss in the frame corners gets to 55% (−2.28 EV**). "

Since the camera Exposure Value setting is -8 EV plus the corners vignette about -2 EV, I am personally not surprised by the "cast" and shape thereof on the S1R shot.

** in my world, LensTip is equivalent to Chuck Norris, so, if they say 55% is -2.28 EV, who am I to argue? ... LOL

 

[Kyle Jones]

At the same time, I see a completely different performance with the same lens on the R5 vs. on the S1R. I have also observed this same issue with other lenses on the S1R, and only on the bottom of the frame.

 

[xpatUSA]

At the same time, I see a completely different performance with the same lens on the R5 vs. on the S1R. I have also observed this same issue with other lenses on the S1R, ...

so it could be said that the S1R sensor [or firmware] is less able to handle that degree of under-exposure than other camera sensors?

- and only on the bottom of the frame.

Would that be for any scenes or just for dark-at-the-bottom scenes such as the one posted, I wonder? For example, if the camera had been held inverted for some reason would the cast still have been at the bottom of the frame or would it have moved to the dark top of the frame?

I have neither camera so I am just speculating based on the posted images.

 

[JimFox]

At the same time, I see a completely different performance with the same lens on the R5 vs. on the S1R. I have also observed this same issue with other lenses on the S1R, and only on the bottom of the frame.

Hey Kyle, It seems to me that the issue is mainly with the Sigma. But to the point brought up about vignetting. Here is something interesting I have noticed with my use of the 14mm f1.8.

When I adjust the vignetting in ACR, if I adjust it so that there is no darkening in the corners in the sky, usually about a setting of about 50. Then both lower corners will be too bright. They don't look noisy and megenta like your Sigma is showing, but they are brighter. So I have gotten to where when I adjust the vignetting in ACR, I look at the bottom, and adjust it to be an even amount of darkness along the bottom. The sky will be still darker in the corners, but I can correct the sky by itself in a seperate edit of the sky. So usually now I am sticking closer to 35 for my vignetting setting.

I scratch my head as to why the vignetting wouldn't be even between all 4 corners, maybe it's a deep shadow thing with the ground layer compared to the sky?

Again, I think you have demonstrated the Sigma S1R has horrible shadow recovery. So maybe that's 75% of the issue and the Sigma 14mm f1.8 is 25% of the issue?

Just thinking....

 

[Kyle Jones]

That's the funny thing. The S1R has tremendous shadow recovery - as long as there is some actual light to recover. In a truly dark scene what looks to me like electrical noise dominates.

I'm used to lens vignetting in night images. Most of the very fast, wide lenses vignette wide open. Yeah, it is a factor here, but it isn't the cause. I can show the same camera performance with Samyang, Canon and Panasonic lenses. Heck, I may shoot it upside down with a Leica lens tonight.

 

[JimFox]

That's the funny thing. The S1R has tremendous shadow recovery - as long as there is some actual light to recover. In a truly dark scene what looks to me like electrical noise dominates.

I'm used to lens vignetting in night images. Most of the very fast, wide lenses vignette wide open. Yeah, it is a factor here, but it isn't the cause. I can show the same camera performance with Samyang, Canon and Panasonic lenses. Heck, I may shoot it upside down with a Leica lens tonight.

Ha ha... you made me laugh when you said you might use the camera upside down...

I might do the same since it was brought up.