Darcy Grizzle
Well-Known Member
I think I am getting it
- Thread starter Darcy Grizzle
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Darcy Grizzle
Well-Known Member
This was at 200 mm with my 16-300 Tamron, so I realize that zoomed I am always gonna get blurred out behind them. I just wanna know I have the theory right hahaha.
Darcy Grizzle
Well-Known Member
so for instance, the aspens are the 1st 1/3 of the frame, so that is what I should have focused on, but I was focused on the furthest point, .
Try this. What I do is play around with the numbers and eventually got a pretty good feel for the relationships. For example, at wide angle, DOF is deep, at long focal lengths its very shallow. Stopped down it's deep and wide open its shallow.
For really long lenses (500 or more), you just need to focus on the area that must be in focus, for really wide (111-14mm), you have very deep dof.
Go to this page, select a camera, select a focal length and then put in subject distance. It will calculate the DOFm that is near and far acceptable sharpness. Play with different numbers, I use 10,000 feet for infinity.
I have a piece of paper in my photo vest that has just a few numbers for 14,24,50 and 70mm at my normal f stop. After a while I know from experience that a particular distance will produce good dof.
I also do some practice with any new lens and camera to verify this.
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
For really long lenses (500 or more), you just need to focus on the area that must be in focus, for really wide (111-14mm), you have very deep dof.
Go to this page, select a camera, select a focal length and then put in subject distance. It will calculate the DOFm that is near and far acceptable sharpness. Play with different numbers, I use 10,000 feet for infinity.
I have a piece of paper in my photo vest that has just a few numbers for 14,24,50 and 70mm at my normal f stop. After a while I know from experience that a particular distance will produce good dof.
I also do some practice with any new lens and camera to verify this.
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
Darcy Grizzle
Well-Known Member
Oh that is pretty cool. So at 16 mm with my camera, Nikon D7000 if I wanted the whole thing in focus my hyper focal was 3 feet, so I should have focused on something 3 feet in front of me...then everything would have been sharp beyond that as it says whatever is in front of the three feet would not be sharp but to infinity it would. Very helpful
Darcy Grizzle
Well-Known Member
So in this case, if I focused on even the rock, then recomposed, it all should have been sharp. Because the rock was probably a good 5 feet away from me.
Darcy Grizzle
Well-Known Member
so if I am shooting at 200mm, and the subject is infinity, I need to focus 400 feet in front of me which in this pic would be maybe right before the point in the mountain behind the two aspens. I am going to Valley of Fire Sat, after a Powwow shoot....so am going to try. Also going to try bracketing & maybe focus stacking....brain overload.
Darcy Grizzle
Well-Known Member
crap I need a laser to measure for me hahahah. Maybe the pines right behind the Aspens. I will play and I thank you for that link.
Ha ha Darcy! Yes, we all have laser tape measures. Then in our spare time we duel with them like light sabers...
Darcy Grizzle
Well-Known Member
My husband is really good at judging feet but not me LOLOL. I am blonde ya know! But I want to join int he light saber fightHa ha Darcy! Yes, we all have laser tape measures. Then in our spare time we duel with them like light sabers...
I am a hell of a fighter!
Darcy Grizzle
Well-Known Member
I am so glad Ryan (Lightsgood) talked me into joining. I can actually ask a question and get advice & help, and links to research & learn. I am grateful
I am working on an Article that discusses DoF and just how the Aperture affects what is in focus. I may just put up a simple version of it to start.
But it sounds like you are getting the basics.
There will be people telling you that you need to Focus Stack in order to get every thing in focus, and it does have it's place at times. But for years with Film, there was no focus stacking, we used Hyperfocal distance to get our shots in focus. And I would have to say it must have worked pretty well since there are tons of awesome film shots that were shot.
There are a couple of things to remember in no particular order.
1. DX (crop) cameras will have more DOF then FX (Full Frame) cameras at the same F Stop (aperture)
2. For each lens there will be a range of F Stops that will be the sharpest, usually f8 to f13.
3. Diffraction. It is an optical issue that softens an image at the extreme F stops. So for example, while F22 will have more of the image in focus then say F11, it may not actually appear that way because Diffraction is softening the image so visually it's taking away from what's in focus.
4. At any given F Stop, say F8 for example. At 16mm at F8 there will be a much larger area in focus, then there will be at 50mm. Basically the more you zoom in, the tighter you get, the less that will be in focus. So sometimes its better to move closer to an object so you can shoot wider then it is to simply use a longer lens.
5. Hyperfocal Distance does work. Now when using it, if you read it will talk about being perceptually in focus, especially on the far end. You can use HyperFocal to get everything in focus, and it will "look" in focus. But now if you pixel peep, you might find it's not totally as in focus in the distance as it is in the foreground. But if you look at your print normally, it will perceptually look in focus. And personally I find it more pleasing and helps to add depth to an image anyway.
Hope those thoughts laid out help. There might be more, but I am getting hungry...
But it sounds like you are getting the basics.
There will be people telling you that you need to Focus Stack in order to get every thing in focus, and it does have it's place at times. But for years with Film, there was no focus stacking, we used Hyperfocal distance to get our shots in focus. And I would have to say it must have worked pretty well since there are tons of awesome film shots that were shot.
There are a couple of things to remember in no particular order.
1. DX (crop) cameras will have more DOF then FX (Full Frame) cameras at the same F Stop (aperture)
2. For each lens there will be a range of F Stops that will be the sharpest, usually f8 to f13.
3. Diffraction. It is an optical issue that softens an image at the extreme F stops. So for example, while F22 will have more of the image in focus then say F11, it may not actually appear that way because Diffraction is softening the image so visually it's taking away from what's in focus.
4. At any given F Stop, say F8 for example. At 16mm at F8 there will be a much larger area in focus, then there will be at 50mm. Basically the more you zoom in, the tighter you get, the less that will be in focus. So sometimes its better to move closer to an object so you can shoot wider then it is to simply use a longer lens.
5. Hyperfocal Distance does work. Now when using it, if you read it will talk about being perceptually in focus, especially on the far end. You can use HyperFocal to get everything in focus, and it will "look" in focus. But now if you pixel peep, you might find it's not totally as in focus in the distance as it is in the foreground. But if you look at your print normally, it will perceptually look in focus. And personally I find it more pleasing and helps to add depth to an image anyway.
Hope those thoughts laid out help. There might be more, but I am getting hungry...
It's great to have you here Darcy!I am so glad Ryan (Lightsgood) talked me into joining. I can actually ask a question and get advice & help, and links to research & learn. I am grateful
We all can learn no matter how long we have been photographing, but one of the reasons this forum was created was to be able to help out new photographers. To provide a safe place to learn and to ask questions. So it's really awesome to see you growing!
Darcy Grizzle
Well-Known Member
I read something about that, can't remember where but the photographer was saying that he had a16-24 wide angle, but alway shot at 16 and just moved closer. Which I learned with my 40 mil the other day. But it is a prime & you have to move, you can't just stand & zoom. I will post what I come up with this weekend next week in here . Ya'll have a great weekend!
. Ya'll have a great weekend!
Hi Darcy, can't keep up with your questions, but keep them coming for sure. Jim, who I am sure is far better versed than I can answer many and has already, I will stick to generalities.
1. I don't try to use hyperfocal past say 100mm. This is where I usually want shallow dof for example, a birds eye and head sharp and everything else blurred, this must be critically focused manually or via AF. But the occasional long lens for landscapes, I generally stop way down and check the focus on the live view screen at several places.
2. If you check the results of the DOF chart, you will see that you can focus at infinity and get almost the same results in wide angle f13 sort of shots. If i have grass at my feet that i want sharp I focus close (estimated hyperfocal) and if I am standing on a ledge and nothing is close, I focus at infinity. The point being, the hyperfocal distance is math, but not real critical for precision, you don't need a laser. That's what I learned from the DOF calculator. Do it yourself, find the hyperfocal distance for a typical 24mm shot and then change the focus to infinity (10,000 feet will do) and see how little the close distance changes.
3. Jim is correct, pixel peepers will say the hyperfocal method are not getting you perfect sharpness, while true just ignore that advice. The biggest enemy of good is perfect.
4. Also remember this. If you are on a tripod at standing height, the close stuff is usually at ground level and further away as the focal length gets longer. That means the longer good close focus number you get as the focal length gets longer is compensated by the close stuff receding from you. But it also means if you have tall stuff that is close, you have a problem. If you have a tree 3 feet away and want to use 70mm, you probably can't have everything sharp.
1. I don't try to use hyperfocal past say 100mm. This is where I usually want shallow dof for example, a birds eye and head sharp and everything else blurred, this must be critically focused manually or via AF. But the occasional long lens for landscapes, I generally stop way down and check the focus on the live view screen at several places.
2. If you check the results of the DOF chart, you will see that you can focus at infinity and get almost the same results in wide angle f13 sort of shots. If i have grass at my feet that i want sharp I focus close (estimated hyperfocal) and if I am standing on a ledge and nothing is close, I focus at infinity. The point being, the hyperfocal distance is math, but not real critical for precision, you don't need a laser. That's what I learned from the DOF calculator. Do it yourself, find the hyperfocal distance for a typical 24mm shot and then change the focus to infinity (10,000 feet will do) and see how little the close distance changes.
3. Jim is correct, pixel peepers will say the hyperfocal method are not getting you perfect sharpness, while true just ignore that advice. The biggest enemy of good is perfect.
4. Also remember this. If you are on a tripod at standing height, the close stuff is usually at ground level and further away as the focal length gets longer. That means the longer good close focus number you get as the focal length gets longer is compensated by the close stuff receding from you. But it also means if you have tall stuff that is close, you have a problem. If you have a tree 3 feet away and want to use 70mm, you probably can't have everything sharp.
Darcy Grizzle
Well-Known Member
I thought you guys would be getting sick of me & my questions so far LOL. You all are great! I will try to keep this all in mind this weekend, OMG hahahah
Some how I feel like we have created a mad scientist! We better watch out Ben.
Darcy Grizzle
Well-Known Member
I just told my friend Teresa Gilbert, that you probably think you have created a monster .....she just joined up! You will have both of us now!
.....she just joined up! You will have both of us now!
Bring it on
Teresa Gilbert
Well-Known Member
Yep - provided I can figure out what questions to ask lol!I just told my friend Teresa Gilbert, that you probably think you have created a monster