Thoughts on camera replacement.

[Ben Egbert]

This is just going to be a rambling story of the ideas I am contemplating. My goals for improvement would be as follows based on my Canon 5DSR

• I want to stay in the same system and use or at least start off with my current excellent lens set.
• I specifically want mirrorless, tilt screen wifi, blue tooth and some of the new focus aides.
• I hate losing mpixels, but 45 is probably enough.
• I want better DR and high ISO noise improvement. I wonder if the heat management system used in the EOS R5 will help in long shutter heat and noise.
• Less weight will always be welcome.
• A 24-105 would make an ideal all around lens. But I have the 11-24 F4 and 24-70 f2.8 which are excellent.
• I don’t need video.
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• The only thing my current system is lacking is good night photography. The rest is just convenience. I am not dedicated enough to night photography to buy specifically for that purpose, like for example fast wide lens. My 11-24 is a great night lens because at f4 it does not need to be stopped down any further for DOF, and is wide enough to shoot at a longer shutter and lower ISO for the same exposure. An f2.8 lens probably needs to be stopped down for DOF.
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• Also it occurred to me that I like the Milky way core and don’t need the entire arc, so 24mm works for that, and is sharp at f2.8 and if I have nothing close does not need to be stopped down.
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• Also, I want as bright a moon as possible to get some natural light on the landscape. To test this theory, I went out last night for some Milky Way under a ½ moon. This test failed as it was too bright for the MW to show up. But I have done this with a slightly dimmer moon at The Temples of the Moon.
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• Here is an example of last night test. Too bright for a Milky way and way too noisy.

24mm f2.8 Iso 2000 5 seconds

 

[Jameel Hyder]

Ben, the R5 checks off your boxes paired with the RF 24-105 f4 L IS. The other alternative is the Sony A74 with the Sony 24-105 G lens. Both of these options will need an adapter to pair the EF glass with the body.

 

[Jameel Hyder]

The heat issue on R5 is primarily related to video and there are a bunch of theories out there with some rumors about firmware fixes coming very soon.

 

[AlanLichty]

Do you have any local photo shops that carry camera bodies like the Canon R5 and would let you take some shots with your own lenses out in the parking lot for testing? It might be worthwhile finding out how well your existing glass collection works with an adapter.

As Jameel already mentioned the heat issues people have reported with the R5 body are confined to video use so not a factor at all for your still photography.

Everything I have read about the R5 body so far suggests that it blows my 5D Mk IV (and the almost identical EOS R) away for low noise at high ISO settings as well as auto-focus capabilities.

 

[Ben Egbert]

Thanks for the response guys. I am well aware that the heat management on the R5 is for video, but sensor heat has always been a problem for night work and the guys who modified older cameras for astro work added heat sinks to the sensor. So any heat management done to the sensor for other reasons might also benefit long exposure stills.

As for my lens working on the R5, I have no doubt they will work fine, and only at the cost of an adaptor. Long term I would probably want the 24-105. But my 11-24 and 100-400 are specialty lenses and I am pretty sure they will work fine with a Canon built adaptor.

I had also considered a high end EOSM camera which would be a real weight savings and cost savings too. I will keep the EOS 5DS R. I also wish the new mirrorless did not have an AA filter.

 

[JimFox]

Hey Ben,

As to your photo, why 5 secs? that is way too short for a 24mm lens. You can shoot up to 20 secs easily and depending on how picky you are and how much you pixel peep you can go up to 24 secs long. But for safety sake, say 20 secs is your max, always shot at 20 secs for your shutter speed, then lower your ISO or you can increase your aperture slightly if you want. But I would go with the lower ISO.

As to your comment about DOF on a 14mm, you don't need to stop down from f2.8 when shooting at 14mm for DOF. I shoot at f1.8 at 14mm and get everything in focus from 6 feet to infinity. I shot many years with an f4 lens at night, and I got some really great photos, but when I was able to move up to a f2.8 lens and then a f1.8 lens it was a whole new ballgame. It really makes a difference. I would highly suggest you get a Samyang or Rokinon f2.8 14mm for shooting your stars at night. Their quality control is not the greatest, so you may have to order 2 or 3 of them to find a copy that isn't decentered (the biggest issue), but when you get a good copy, those little 14mm are just as sharp as $1000 lens. You want to start shooting a bit more at night, so I think investing $300 on a Samyang 14mm f2.8 is well worth the money.

 

[Jameel Hyder]

I also find 14mm too wide at times. I find the 24/1.4 very useful for night more often than the 14. They are both quite reasonably priced.

i got a good copy of 14/2.8 on my 3rd try. No decentering and the infinity stop is spot on. For the 24/1.4 the infinity is off. I have taped the focus ring at infinity and so don’t have to worry about focusing in the dark.

 

[Ben Egbert]

Hi Jim, yes, it was so bright I did not need a long exposure or high ISO, I shot many settings. But his particular setting had the right balance. As far as lenses, I just have no other purpose for a fast wide lens than night shots. I would not be upgrading my camera for night work either it would just be a bonus but I would buy it for other reasons. I am also unhappy that it has one expensive card slot. I would probably not use that slot and just stick with the SD.

The price of the 5R is outrageous to start with and adding a lens would make it more so. And I don't wish to buy any more EF lenses when they are about obsolete.

 

[Ben Egbert]

Hey Ben,

As to your photo, why 5 secs? that is way too short for a 24mm lens. You can shoot up to 20 secs easily and depending on how picky you are and how much you pixel peep you can go up to 24 secs long. But for safety sake, say 20 secs is your max, always shot at 20 secs for your shutter speed, then lower your ISO or you can increase your aperture slightly if you want. But I would go with the lower ISO.

As to your comment about DOF on a 14mm, you don't need to stop down from f2.8 when shooting at 14mm for DOF. I shoot at f1.8 at 14mm and get everything in focus from 6 feet to infinity. I shot many years with an f4 lens at night, and I got some really great photos, but when I was able to move up to a f2.8 lens and then a f1.8 lens it was a whole new ballgame. It really makes a difference. I would highly suggest you get a Samyang or Rokinon f2.8 14mm for shooting your stars at night. Their quality control is not the greatest, so you may have to order 2 or 3 of them to find a copy that isn't decentered (the biggest issue), but when you get a good copy, those little 14mm are just as sharp as $1000 lens. You want to start shooting a bit more at night, so I think investing $300 on a Samyang 14mm f2.8 is well worth the money.

I looked for a 14 f1.8 lens today and did not find anything for a Canon EF or R mount. I did find the 14 f2.8 lenses however. I used to have a Rokinion 14 f2.8 MF lens but sold it when I got the 11-24.

 

[Jameel Hyder]

Sigma has the only 14mm f1.8 lens for all mounts incl. Canon EF

https://smile.amazon.com/Sigma-14mm...1598551938&sprefix=Sigma+14mm+,aps,218&sr=8-2

 

[JimFox]

I love my Sigma 14mm f1.8 Ben, but bear in mind it's a $1500 lens. For what you are talking about since you won't be using it that much the Rokinon 14mm f2.8 is the way to go. I personally think the increase in price for the Sigma is worth it, but you may not based on how much you use it.

 

[Kyle Jones]

Rokinon SP 14/2.4 is a great middle ground between the cheaper f/2.8 version and the Sigma. I love mine.

Also, if noise at ISO 2000 is a problem for you then you will never be happy with noise at night.

 

[Jameel Hyder]

Rokinon SP 14/2.4 is a great middle ground between the cheaper f/2.8 version and the Sigma. I love mine.

Also, if noise at ISO 2000 is a problem for you then you will never be happy with noise at night.

The Rokinon 14/2.4 is something I have been eyeing for a while. How much better is it compared to the 2.8 version? I know the distortion issues with the 2.8 which is not much of an issue with astro.

 

[Ben Egbert]

Thanks guys for the help. The trip Tuesday night was an experiment to see it this area was a good place for a Milky Way. Even though the sky was too bright to see it, the position according to Sky Guide was perfect. I may go next time on a moonless night just for a real look. It was also a test to see if 24mm was wide enough. I won't know for sure until I actually get a MW image from there.

Kyle, I can usually make ISO2000 work, but had other factors. I think the long shutter is worse than high ISO for my camera. Its not so much noise as amp glow. I was going to do a short exposure stack set at higher ISO but that was useless with so much light.

I like Jameel's suggestion for a 24 f1.4 if I find 24 is wide enough.

I will probably get a 5R, (my wife has given her blessing) but start with just an adaptor. I can try 24 f2.8 and 14 f4 and see if the noise and amp glow are ok before buying faster glass.

 

[Jameel Hyder]

Thanks guys for the help. The trip Tuesday night was an experiment to see it this area was a good place for a Milky Way. Even though the sky was too bright to see it, the position according to Sky Guide was perfect. I may go next time on a moonless night just for a real look. It was also a test to see if 24mm was wide enough. I won't know for sure until I actually get a MW image from there.

Kyle, I can usually make ISO2000 work, but had other factors. I think the long shutter is worse than high ISO for my camera. Its not so much noise as amp glow. I was going to do a short exposure stack set at higher ISO but that was useless with so much light.

I like Jameel's suggestion for a 24 f1.4 if I find 24 is wide enough.

I will probably get a 5R, (my wife has given her blessing) but start with just an adaptor. I can try 24 f2.8 and 14 f4 and see if the noise and amp glow are ok before buying faster glass.

Do turn "long exposure noise reduction" to ON rather than AUTO for night shots. It makes the exposure twice as long (it takes an equal exposure with the shutter closed and subtracts it from the captured image). It does make a difference for long exposures. You can just try it for night image at home and see the difference.

 

[Ben Egbert]

Thanks Jameel, I just checked and it was off. I have it on in my custom settings, but it was not on in manual mode.

 

[Kyle Jones]

The Rokinon 14/2.4 is something I have been eyeing for a while. How much better is it compared to the 2.8 version? I know the distortion issues with the 2.8 which is not much of an issue with astro.

The distortion and build quality are much better, I also like being able to "stop down" to f/2.8. It is a nice upgrade although I'm not sure how visible that is in the images.

Kyle, I can usually make ISO2000 work, but had other factors. I think the long shutter is worse than high ISO for my camera. Its not so much noise as amp glow. I was going to do a short exposure stack set at higher ISO but that was useless with so much light.

The amp glow is what I couldn't take from the 5DSR too. I definitely get it.

 

[Ben Egbert]

I notice that many people have the R5 already judging by reviews. Looks like the first shipment was grabbed up and now they are our of stock. I seem to recall on Canon Rumors that the second batch was going to be delayed because of an anticipated heat fix. Anybody know more?

 

[JimFox]

I notice that many people have the R5 already judging by reviews. Looks like the first shipment was grabbed up and now they are our of stock. I seem to recall on Canon Rumors that the second batch was going to be delayed because of an anticipated heat fix. Anybody know more?

I don't know much, but I know I would wait for that heat fix to be completed.

 

[Ben Egbert]

I don't know much, but I know I would wait for that heat fix to be completed.

Jim, as far as I know, the heat thing is all about video and only long 8K videos at that. I think the fixes will be software fixes to manage or slow down data. But in any event, I suspect that the heat management they already have will make this a great long exposure camera.