Benro Polaris

[JimFox]

OK, I just jumped in on this, the Pro version, as I am intrigued by having the option for a cellular connection and having situations where I can control this thing from great distances without worrying about WiFi coverage. It may turn out that many places I use this won't have cell coverage, and activating the cell capability could end up being pricey, but I decided to pay and have the option going forward.

I think on balance this should hopefully be a great head for panos and automated shooting of sunrise / sunset and time-lapses. My belief from what I know is that the astro functionality will hopefully be good enough for wider sky stuff but may start to not be good enough once one gets above 100 - 200 mm. If it can handle longer focal lengths for a couple minute subs that will be great. And the automated nature of the setup should be something special for sure.

Thanks to Jim and then Kyle for bringing this to my attention. Hopefully Kyle and I can start reporting back on how this thing works sometime after July.

ML

Hey Mike,

I wrote an email to their support a few days ago asking them specific questions just about how accurate it will be and what it can handle for subs. I have yet to hear back.

In their documentation they do mention being able to track the Milky Way and Galaxies. So whether that means 1 Galaxy in Andromeda or other Galaxies like Pinwheel I hope they will respond back and that my questions don't get lost.

 

[Mike Lewis]

Jim,

Yes I think that is the real detail that is lacking in the initial propaganda for this product. I also asked basically those same questions, both in an email, and then today in a backer survey I received.

I am still skeptical this will be a replacement for the astro mounts you have been considering as far as ultimate tracking accuracy goes. In my case I wanted the other feature set and considered it worth the money. In your case, with astro as a priority, at least until the capabilities of the Polaris are either verified in writing by the vendor or even better verified in practice by end users, I think the other approaches you are considering make more sense. But we will eventually get to see one way or the other what this system's real performance specs and constraints turn out to be.

I think with plate solving, cheap GPS, and more affordable small processors this kind of thing will be the wave of the future. Maybe not in an Az/El mount, but in a future equatorial platform that adds some degrees of freedom to not only take images and calculate an accurate polar alignment (which is being done now by the likes of iPolar and QHY's Polemaster) but then to also automatically move to align itself to the pole automatically. The tech to do this is there now, at some point someone will do it in a larger EQ mount I predict.

5 to 10 years from now set up for an astro mount might be a totally automated operation.

ML

 

[Graeme F]

Hello - newly signed up as came across the site! Looks great and looking forward to contributing!

Just in terms of the Benro Polaris I've been watching their comments section on Kickstarter and they have stated (in addition to the above) an improved tracking rate as follows:

From Benro:

"We are so happy to share some more good news with everyone that after additional prototype testing and verification - that we have decided to increase the tracking accuracy of Polaris by four. This increases the initial design accuracy of 0.01 ° (36 arcsec) to 0.0025 ° (9 arcsec). This is achieved by increasing the deceleration ratio of the transmission structure. Thank you very much to everyone who gave us practical suggestions to help make Polaris more perfect.

In addition, Polaris has added a new shooting mode. Now that the accuracy of Polaris has been improved, we hope to also make Polaris more powerful.

To do this - we have added a visual correction function to Polaris. When you use Polaris for long exposure deep-sky shooting, Polaris will take a set of photos, each of which is a long exposure. After each photo is taken, Polaris will recognize the precise position of each star in the frame and correct for the movement/direction of the camera. This helps to avoid shooting for tens of minutes or having to continually reset positioning and restarting shots for hours. After the shooting is complete - Polaris will align and stack the photos captured to create an ultra-long exposure photo."

They also state their app has database of deepsky objects not just galaxies. Its all very intriguing and I can't think I've come across a Goto tracker comparable to Star Adventurer or similar. I'm guessing with a 7KG load and that 9 arcsec accuracy it should be able to manage DSLR + 300mm lens no issue?

 

[Kyle Jones]

Hello - newly signed up as came across the site! Looks great and looking forward to contributing!

Just in terms of the Benro Polaris I've been watching their comments section on Kickstarter and they have stated (in addition to the above) an improved tracking rate as follows:

From Benro:

"We are so happy to share some more good news with everyone that after additional prototype testing and verification - that we have decided to increase the tracking accuracy of Polaris by four. This increases the initial design accuracy of 0.01 ° (36 arcsec) to 0.0025 ° (9 arcsec). This is achieved by increasing the deceleration ratio of the transmission structure. Thank you very much to everyone who gave us practical suggestions to help make Polaris more perfect.

In addition, Polaris has added a new shooting mode. Now that the accuracy of Polaris has been improved, we hope to also make Polaris more powerful.

To do this - we have added a visual correction function to Polaris. When you use Polaris for long exposure deep-sky shooting, Polaris will take a set of photos, each of which is a long exposure. After each photo is taken, Polaris will recognize the precise position of each star in the frame and correct for the movement/direction of the camera. This helps to avoid shooting for tens of minutes or having to continually reset positioning and restarting shots for hours. After the shooting is complete - Polaris will align and stack the photos captured to create an ultra-long exposure photo."

They also state their app has database of deepsky objects not just galaxies. Its all very intriguing and I can't think I've come across a Goto tracker comparable to Star Adventurer or similar. I'm guessing with a 7KG load and that 9 arcsec accuracy it should be able to manage DSLR + 300mm lens no issue?

Welcome and I look forward to seeing some of your work! I was happy to see that improvement to the tracking too. There's going to be a lot to learn with this thing - including whether I want it combining photos for me.

 

[JimFox]

Hello - newly signed up as came across the site! Looks great and looking forward to contributing!

Just in terms of the Benro Polaris I've been watching their comments section on Kickstarter and they have stated (in addition to the above) an improved tracking rate as follows:

From Benro:

"We are so happy to share some more good news with everyone that after additional prototype testing and verification - that we have decided to increase the tracking accuracy of Polaris by four. This increases the initial design accuracy of 0.01 ° (36 arcsec) to 0.0025 ° (9 arcsec). This is achieved by increasing the deceleration ratio of the transmission structure. Thank you very much to everyone who gave us practical suggestions to help make Polaris more perfect.

In addition, Polaris has added a new shooting mode. Now that the accuracy of Polaris has been improved, we hope to also make Polaris more powerful.

To do this - we have added a visual correction function to Polaris. When you use Polaris for long exposure deep-sky shooting, Polaris will take a set of photos, each of which is a long exposure. After each photo is taken, Polaris will recognize the precise position of each star in the frame and correct for the movement/direction of the camera. This helps to avoid shooting for tens of minutes or having to continually reset positioning and restarting shots for hours. After the shooting is complete - Polaris will align and stack the photos captured to create an ultra-long exposure photo."

They also state their app has database of deepsky objects not just galaxies. Its all very intriguing and I can't think I've come across a Goto tracker comparable to Star Adventurer or similar. I'm guessing with a 7KG load and that 9 arcsec accuracy it should be able to manage DSLR + 300mm lens no issue?

Welcome Graeme! It's great to have you join FocalWorld, and thanks for sharing this information. I might have to order this finally.

For reference, my D850 and Tamron 150-600mm that I use currently on a SkyGuider Pro to do Deep Space is about 10lbs is only 4.5kg. So being 2.5kg under their max weight, I would think it would be fine with a 300mm lens and DSLR.

 

[Graeme F]

Thanks Kyle. Yep I do wonder if its all alittle too good to be true but then again I guess someone has to be the first to make something like polaris. That said I think it's a little cheeky calling it polaris seeing as it doesn't allegedly require aligning to polaris to polar align!

Part of me wonders too why no star tracked images have appeared on their site. I would have thought that would have been kinda obvious to post. Maybe no clear skies in Benro land?

 

[Graeme F]

Little update appeared on their kickstarter page this morning (March 2nd) in the comments section re. when next update will be made:

Our team is now out in the field working hard to get more images and footage for making the demos, they will be published to the public soon

 

[JimFox]

Little update appeared on their kickstarter page this morning (March 2nd) in the comments section re. when next update will be made:

Our team is now out in the field working hard to get more images and footage for making the demos, they will be published to the public soon

Hopefully the update comes before March 15th which is the Kick Starter deadline. I have yet to decide if I will get it.

 

[Mike Lewis]

So as someone who has already backed the project I got an email with essentially this same info a few days back. While it is welcome news and sounds positive, I am still a little skeptical about what the actual realistic performance will be. Here are a few comments and a few questions I still have.

Comments:
- 9 arcsec accuracy is no joke. For reference, my big (it's actually the smallest model they make) Paramount MyT tracking mount that costs an order of magnitude (that's 10 times) more that the Benro Polaris has a tracking spec of +/- 7 arcsecs. My 225 point model I just loaded into it is specified to put everything inside of a 30 arcsec circle, with a RMS pointing error of about 9 arcsec. The Benro Polaris can be significantly worse than this and still be quite usable. If it actually achieves anything along the lines of 9 arcsec in any sort of repeatable way I'll be blown away.

- I also am eagerly awaiting more info on any of the aspects of using this for astro stuff.

- I agree with you Graeme - if this could be made to do imaging at 300mm for any length of time with decent stars it will be very nice. I would settle for 2 to 3 mins at 200mm really.

Questions:
- I really have no idea what the new 'visual correction mode' is - the description is not at all clear. Sounds like some sort of in-device stacking algorithm? If so I agree with Kyle, I prefer to do my own stacking, so hopefully it is an 'in addition to' and not an 'instead of' type of capability.

I am still excited for this, as I think the other capabilities will make it worth the money to me regardless of how the astro comes out, but if it can do astro at the level of a SkyGuider Pro for instance it is going to be a home run.

ML

 

[JimFox]

So as someone who has already backed the project I got an email with essentially this same info a few days back. While it is welcome news and sounds positive, I am still a little skeptical about what the actual realistic performance will be. Here are a few comments and a few questions I still have.

Comments:
- 9 arcsec accuracy is no joke. For reference, my big (it's actually the smallest model they make) Paramount MyT tracking mount that costs an order of magnitude (that's 10 times) more that the Benro Polaris has a tracking spec of +/- 7 arcsecs. My 225 point model I just loaded into it is specified to put everything inside of a 30 arcsec circle, with a RMS pointing error of about 9 arcsec. The Benro Polaris can be significantly worse than this and still be quite usable. If it actually achieves anything along the lines of 9 arcsec in any sort of repeatable way I'll be blown away.

- I also am eagerly awaiting more info on any of the aspects of using this for astro stuff.

- I agree with you Graeme - if this could be made to do imaging at 300mm for any length of time with decent stars it will be very nice. I would settle for 2 to 3 mins at 200mm really.

Questions:
- I really have no idea what the new 'visual correction mode' is - the description is not at all clear. Sounds like some sort of in-device stacking algorithm? If so I agree with Kyle, I prefer to do my own stacking, so hopefully it is an 'in addition to' and not an 'instead of' type of capability.

I am still excited for this, as I think the other capabilities will make it worth the money to me regardless of how the astro comes out, but if it can do astro at the level of a SkyGuider Pro for instance it is going to be a home run.

ML

Thanks Mike for breaking that down, that’s very helpful.

I don’t believe the user will be forced to have the photos downloaded to the device unless you allow it. I understood that whether it’s for panning for a Timelapse or video or shooting the stars, those are functions the device can do separate from your camera.

 

[Jameel Hyder]

Thanks Mike for breaking that down, that’s very helpful.

I don’t believe the user will be forced to have the photos downloaded to the device unless you allow it. I understood that whether it’s for panning for a Timelapse or video or shooting the stars, those are functions the device can do separate from your camera.

One has to allow the images to be downloaded otherwise it can't do what it purports to - it likely uses the tethering interface for that. However you have the images the camera takes in its own memory anyway. It can't delete or overwrite them. If it does any manipulation of images, it has to have a way to store the resulting image somewhere else. Not sure if it has a place to put a memory card in it.

 

[JimFox]

One has to allow the images to be downloaded otherwise it can't do what it purports to - it likely uses the tethering interface for that. However you have the images the camera takes in its own memory anyway. It can't delete or overwrite them. If it does any manipulation of images, it has to have a way to store the resulting image somewhere else. Not sure if it has a place to put a memory card in it.

I am just hoping it isn’t writing it’s photos to your phones memory since it does discuss the WiFi connection with the phone.

 

[Mike Lewis]

Jameel,

That all makes sense to me. I expect it is doing whatever it does, but independent of that one still has the raw images on the card. I understand the phone is just the interface device to allow for control and to preview some of the results. I did not think any computing is really being done on the phone, other than perhaps helping to locate some objects in the sky when you use their app and hold the phone up.

As Jim said before this thing purports to do so many different things it is hard to get a handle yet on what it can do well, and how it all comes together.

ML

 

[Graeme F]

The device has its own 64 bit processor I think which means it should have plenty of grunt to cope with accurate star tracking if the physical limits of the device allow it to in the first place.

It would not surprise me if it had some of SD /sdmicro slot for a memory card or equivalent that it would use for processing images leaving the camera to retain all the raw data.

I emailed their uk division yesterday with all of our questions and they replied today with.... go to Facebook site/kickstarter page for more info.

They are certainly being careful with their updates thats all I can say as they only seem to be replying in the kickstarter comments to answers that are already pretty much in the public domain. The latest reply to a request for astro field data I think was 3 days ago now with a 'soon response.

 

[Graeme F]

Just noticed the following on their comments page regarding storage of media:

Polaris itself does not store media files. All raw images and processed photos will be stored on the camera. You can wirelessly transfer selected files to your phone at any time through the mobile APP.

 

[JimFox]

Just noticed the following on their comments page regarding storage of media:

Polaris itself does not store media files. All raw images and processed photos will be stored on the camera. You can wirelessly transfer selected files to your phone at any time through the mobile APP.

Oh yeah, I remember reading that now too. I would have preferred an SD card slot on it.

 

[Graeme F]

New update out; doesn't add any new details other than they are working hard on the project:

Can read it all here: update no. 6

 

[Graeme F]

Another comment answer re. Memory just posted:

Polaris has a built-in memory (that is a high speed micro SD card) for temporarily storing files. The general workflow is: 1. Download the sequence files from the camera to the memory. 2. Do image calculation and processing in the Linux system inside Polaris. 3. Get the final result image and store it in the memory. 4. Once the phone is connected, user can choose the related files and download them to the phone.

 

[Graeme F]

With regards powerbank accessory:

We will include a dummy battery of Sony or Canon, make sure to tell us the camera model you are using in advance by writing a note when you fill in the address after the campaign ends.

 

[Graeme F]

I just want to see some real astro shot examples!!